(2 pm. – promoted by ek hornbeck)
I have never seen so many people up in arms, or as knee-jerkingly rigid as in the great debate around the so-called Liberal blogosphere than the discussion of third party politics and the potential fall out of the coming elections.
I find it patently absurd, especially the FDL debacle that has sprouted as of late.
The two camps divide neatly into “more and better dems” and “the Uniparty is Kabuki – never again” groups, with a few “lets make a protest vote in the primaries then vote for the Corporate Sponsored One” claiming pragmatism, thrown into the fray.
This is not the Scylla and Charybdis, and I won’t be wrapped around their finger, my friend Sting. Hell I won’t even sail into the region to chance it, myself.
The bottom line is everyone has the right to vote or refrain as they see fit.
And I have the right, if not overwhelming compulsion to run my big mouth about my opinion about it.
I would venture to guess, were I to delineate every massive fail in this administration vs Bush’s all of you would agree with my math. What you may not agree with is my conclusions. But, listen to my logic if you’ve a mind to.
Things have changed wildly from the Nader days, the lessons there are irrelevant. The election was stolen not lost, and Gore is a millionaire trading in carbon credits. I mean, check who funded both campaigns. Check out who funded Obama. Seriously, unless you are in complete denial, you get nowhere without the blessings of the rich. The you act in a way beholden to their interests.
So, lets talk about the lesser of the two evils. State by State the Governators of the Right are waging open warfare on the People. In many ways I’d rather buy a car from a smarmy used salesman than someone pretending to be a friend who is gonna screw me in the end. In my opinion, people react when you toss them into the frying pan, react to preserve themselves, protest, take a stand. This is far better than the slow froggy boil of trickery by Democrats who do the same thing under cover of excuses. How is that working for them so far? Protests, riots, recalls… People are rising up!!!
Let me reiterate here: There is no difference in the end result of voting either major party, only in the rhetoric and speed in which we are screwed. It is a Uniparty, with a few, and I mean VERY few exceptional men and women who take a stand against it. And even then, with the weight of cutting Democratic Party spending on their reelections? Most grudgingly cave, saying their widdle hands were tied. (tied to the money trough I presume)
So, how about a “Working Family Party” or a “Green Party” or my favorite a “Socialist Party”? Heck, I’m a Party of One in the commie-pinko-tree-hugging-dirty-fucking-hippy-chick-who-is-armed-party. Heh.
If you repeat a lie often enough it does not become TRUTH, but it does become a commonly agreed upon REALITY. So, every time we repeat the meme, “A third party is not viable” we create a fabric of reality in which this is true. Its called a self-fulfilling prophecy.
The American Dream (which arguably never existed in the first place) is DEAD.
Its what Noam Chomsky speaks to, when he talks about the Trilateral Commission’s Report that all the concessions made in the 60’s and 70’s were the result of “an excess of democracy.” Noam will be on with me again April 29th on Wild Wild Left Radio. The premise is? The PTB think it is problematic when we are informed and active in the process. They prefer us to be uninformed and uninvolved. There has been an intentional dumbing-down of the American dialogue, and an effort to make protest difficult to the point where we are too afraid to try.
I believe that True Democracy only happens when we vote for and create a system that represents our actual belief systems. That means voting our conscience, not just “making do with what they give us.”
Lets put it this way. Voting third party in a primary, then for a Democrat in the general election is much like telling your child he may not stay out all night, then doing nothing at all when he does. It ENABLES and EBCOURAGES them to not only not respect you, but to flaunt that they can do whatever they want, and you will TAKE it. In my opinion, how can that NOT be counter-productive and counter-intuitive?
It allows the continuation of the process of extraction capitalism, as well as the continual degradation of our individual rights. It makes us pawns of the Elite Class, with no recourse, redress, or rights.
The only way to make the system serve US, as intended is not to enable the diseased system that is making a gaping wound of our lives.
Vote as you will. You won’t hear a word from me for having so done. But making the argument that veiled attack is better than frontal attack, or that its pragmatic to enable your abusers, all while whining about the abuse? I’ll roll my eyes and laugh. The argument doesn’t hold up to logic.
We have become adapted to an old way of thinking, programmed to believe we have no options.
One needs only to look at the Global rejection of oppression by the rich few upon the many to see this is not true. Or Wisconsin!
Its up to us to change our reality.
That said, as a woman who argued FOR sticking with Obama in 2008. I found out the hard way how very wrong I was.
Revolutions start with whispers in the fields, and I am whispering. “There is another way. We can create it. Have faith.”
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make your best argument and change my mind, but remember you’ll have to beat Noam in the debate department. He was pretty compelling.
runs an alternative/complementary health services clinic and she sends a short newsletter out monthly to subscribers. This month she included in the newsletter a very short story called….
“Autobiography in Five Short Chapters”, By: Portia Nelson
will not make any arguments either way….
always want to point out that there is not an indefinite future for this process to extend into…..
and if we have had such a difficult time up to this point what is it going to take to get a true majority to overcome thier appetite and ignorance enough to make good changes in thier political thinking….
even tho the world is beginning outside of our culture to shift gears……
this culture of privelege is fearful of loss of entitlement and position in the world…..
and what seems to be the case is that the tension between the two points of view is increasing…..
without a true shift in perspective……
perhaps if it becomes desperate enough that will change also……
but it may well be very late for that to matter in the bigger picture……
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I like the idea of IRV, but in the end it becomes the same as what you describe. Unless. Unless there is a single addition to every ballot: None Of The Above. And if NOTA wins, all the candidates get dumped, and the whole thing starts over.
I have a sneaking suspicion that, if NOTA were added, the power elite would experience quite a shock (assuming that the counting of votes were validated by humans, instead of being left completely in the grips of rigged tabulators).
of Obama in 2012, the absurdly, head spinning support for a neo-con president in a Democratic Party cloak is disgusting. We don’t need the quality of “more and better democrats” that these fools are supporting. We need REAL Democrats who embrace the principles and platform of the party and restore the rule of law in this country. We need more of the Bernie Sanders School in both the House and Senate. The White House is a one note joke and in reality makes no difference who the occupant is, the power is with Congress.
In NY, the Working Families Party is on the Ballot. If the candidates name is there, I’m almost certain to vote for that person. This last election was the exception. The WFP was forced to accept Andrew Cuomo as their candidate in a political maneuver in order to garner enough votes to maintain the ballot line. As is evidenced the NYS budget, Cuomo is hardly acceptable to any Real Democrat. The budget cuts spending on the backs of those who can least afford it and gives the wealthy a tax cut. Redistribution of wealth by a Democrat is no more acceptable then when done by a Tea Partying Republican.
We the people need to take a page from the citizens of Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio and take to the streets. Start recall referendums and ballot initiatives where we can and support local and down ticket politicians who represent the best interests of the majority and not the wealthy and corporations.
put in write in votes for Bernie Sanders, it would be pretty tough for the villagers to push the “we’re a center right nation” lie.
Certainly not where I live. I am so far out of the mainstream here that I see little hope that anything I think would ever become a majority view around here.
So until we few and poor (in the monetary sense) progressives have the clout of the few and rich (in the monetary sense) I don’t see anything changing. And actually, since I believe in majority rule (with minority protection) I am fine with that should the majority want the rich-rules status quo. If that’s what the majority wants, we don’t deserve better.
Our best and only non-revolutionary hope is to have a Democrat lie his way into office like Obama did, but lie for us and deceive the corporacrats, rather than the other way around. I am also fine with a revolution, should it happen, because it will take that kind of fundamental change to make people have any say-so in their government, if that is what they want.
But if your hope for change is a third party, forget about it. The few democracies that have a permanent third party are all parliamentary in nature. And our political history has headed in the opposite direction of a parliamentary system.
Perhaps there is something about the way our US non-parliamentary system is set up that just does not allow for third parties to exist for more than one election cycle, and then usually only as a spoiler. In the few rare occasions when a third party actually won an election, one of the other two parties, instantly became extinct. If a permanent third party hasn’t emerged in this country in 225 years, it ain’t gonna happen. And saying that a third party can’t happen ain’t a self fulfilling prophecy.
It is something very fundamental with the system. We were much more of a parliamentary system before 1913 when senators were elected by the state legislatures rather than by the public at large. Before that we were even more of a parliamentary system when the President was elected by Congress rather than through the electoral college system. Even then we had no permanent third party. So it ain’t happenin’. It ain’t in the cards or the stars.
So I will almost always vote for the lesser of two evils because I have never been convinced that a third party is anything other than a spoiler which makes the worst of the two evils the likely winner. The only time I would consider voting third party is when I know the election is a foregone conclusion and it is safe to cast a protest vote.
You are right. We have many options we just have to open up our imaginations and stop listening/watching/reading the mainstream media and its mind-control agenda.