While I no longer post on Daily Kos, I do still visit the site to see if there are any diaries posted worth reading. That is how I caught the diary posted by buhdydharma that was written by TocqueDeville. There was a paragraph in it that I really got my goat and requires a response.
So no, I didn’t violate the FAQ. And the assumption that I did is merely a projection of truther nonsense on to me. It is a perfect example of the very point I was trying to make in that diary. Why would I, in a diary where I explicitly expressed my support for the ban on 911 CTs, then turn around and propose a 911 CT? I have seen an invasion of truthers and controlled demolition people at one of my physics forums and I would not wish that on anyone.
But, I’m not going to start this essay by responding to that one paragraph, that will come at the end of it.
Instead, I am going to take us back into time.
December 7th, 1941.
Pearl Harbor is attacked by the Japanese. Did FDR really allow the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor simply because there was no political or public will to enter WWII until we were attacked? Who knows! Anything at this point in time, 68 years later, is mere speculation based on what little facts we accumulate from history. You simply cannot say definitively one way or the other what happened. We do know that there were only three possible versions of history;
1) The Japanese attack was a total surprise
2) FDR knew that Japan was planning an attack, but, misjudged the timing of it ultimately catching Pearl Harbor by surprise
3) FDR knew the attack was coming and hung Pearl out to dry simply to garner the will, both politically and socially, to enter WWII
Those are the ONLY possible versions of the history that was Pearl Harbor. Which one is correct? 68 years after the fact, we simply will never know for sure. There have been books written on it, documents cited that were gained through FOIA requests from the Navy, and still, we can only guess. There simply was no smoking gun either way. But to say that one version CAN’T be true is not accurate. Not today. Nobody today can prove which version was true after 68 years.
November 22nd, 1963.
John F. Kennedy is assassinated. Were there two assassins or one? Why did a standoff occur between county deputies and the secret service on who got to do the autopsy of the body? Why were all records sealed? 46 years later, we still don’t know the answers to these questions — questions that could have been answered then. Unlike Pearl Harbor, there really are several possible scenarios, though some more outlandish than others, to be sure. Which one is the correct version of history? I don’t know. I’m sure there are still people alive today who do know what happened that day. Yet, the official files remain sealed away, away from the public.
But, that is the entire point about a “conspiracy theory”, the further out in time it goes, the harder it is get the facts, the answers, and when there passes too many years, too many decades, it is never resolved in the public eye.
In the case of 9/11, we are still within a window where the facts can be told, the information given to the public. Some will say, “we already did, it was the 9/11 Commission”. But, did we actually get the facts surrounding 9/11 or not?
People who sat on the 9/11 Commission didn’t think so, and, neither do I. And, here is where I have to respond to the paragraph by TocqueDeville. You see, I read TocqueDeville’s original diary and I had no problem with it. I have said that already. What I have a problem with is someone who says, “don’t attack people for questioning”, and then goes on to attack people for questioning!
Sure, there are a lot of people in this world, and, some of them simply are not stable human beings. If you go to a mental hospital, you’ll find people who think they are Jesus. And if you have a “conspiracy theory”, someone is going to blame aliens or government death rays. That doesn’t mean everyone is a nut or unhinged. In fact, the 9/11 Truth movement started with a with a bunch of serious, professional people who had pertinent experience in areas that questioned the official story. What became of that movement? A bunch of nuts spouting death ray theories killed it.
A person who saw a UFO is different from the person who claims a UFO landed, green little aliens got out of the ship and challenged them to a galactic game of Trivial Pursuit (which the person won, proving our superiority in the galaxy, btw). It is different because all it takes to see a UFO is to simply see something flying in the air that you can not identify. That’s it. Don’t you think between the U.S., UK, Germany, Russia, and China alone, the number of experimental aircraft you just might have the chance to see could number in the hundreds that you cannot identify? Do you think someone who saw a B2 bomber flying at high altitude could actually identify it prior it to its public “unveiling”?
If you watched the video of Jesse Ventura from Edgar’s diary, near the end of it, Jesse talks about 9/11 and the questions he wants to see answered. He also made it quite clear that he was a “frogman” in Vietnam in the SEALs, or, underwater demolition expert. Jesse stated, and I have transcribed his words exactly from the video, “I worked in demolition… I’m a former frogman… underwater demolition team… I know how to blow things up… how could the buildings fall at the rate of gravity… basic physics tells you that that can’t happen… how did the cement get so pulverized… just simply from falling it was blown into dust… what energy was required to pulverize all that cement into dust“.
You see, I too am a “demolition guy” having been Explosive Ordnance Disposal. And I too have the same view as Jesse – you simply had to watch WTC 7 fall to question the official story. Forget WTC 1 and 2. Argue all day on those two buildings. I watched WTC 7 fall and said as it fell, “that looks like a controlled demolition!!”
I don’t claim to know what happened on 9/11. I know that there are only a certain number of possibilities:
1) 19 Muslim hijackers took over four aircraft, catching America unprepared, causing the death of over 3,000 people
2) 19 Muslim hijackers took over four aircraft, but, our government knew it was coming, they simply couldn’t predict when or where, causing the death of over 3,000 people
3) 19 Muslim hijackers took over four aircraft, our government was aware of it, and didn’t stop it, or hinder it, in order to garner political and public enough will to attack and invade the Middle East
4) 19 Muslim hijackers took over four aircraft, our government was not only aware of it, but, made sure that the damage was catastrophic, in order to garner political and public will enough to attack and invade the Middle East
5) It wasn’t 19 Muslim hijackers, but, a government plot, to kill our own, in a false flag operation, in order to garner enough political and public will to invade the Middle East
Those are the only possible scenarios. But, in order to ferret out the truth, we still need the facts, and, are in the timeframe to get them. And here is where those who simply call us “nuts” are wrong.
We know, for a fact, that invading Iraq was on the mind of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney from Day 1 of their administration. If you listened to Jesse Ventura, then you know, our government lied about the Gulf of Tonkin in order to get us into Vietnam hot and heavy. He isn’t the first Vietnam Vet to say it. And, when you understand that that lie cost over 58,000 American soldiers and untold numbers of others, you can see the magnitude of that lie.
We know, for a fact, that Dick Cheney’s secret energy task task force had their eyes on the reserve oil fields of Iraq, and, that George W. Bush harbored a personal grudge against Saddam Hussein.
We know, for a fact, that the Bush administration lied about WMD stockpiles in Iraq, and, in fact, lied about every justification for the invasion.
We know now, for a fact, that the Bush administration resorted to torturing prisoners to get false confessions of the Al-Qaeda/Iraq link, just too justify our invasion.
And yet, there was ONE incident that caused the public and political body to have the will to not question that invasion — 9/11.
On September 11, 2001, I was in law enforcement. I had gone from being a mere Patrolman, to a Field Training Officer, to being a road Sergeant, second in charge of the shift. My secondary duty was as a bomb tech. After 9/11, my duties were solely bomb tech, and, as liaison between our department and surrounding bomb teams/K-9 teams.
There is a lot about 9/11 I don’t know. But, there is a lot I do know.
I know that a building that only had scattered fires in it doesn’t implode into its own footprint even if you let those fires burn unchecked.
I know that the little crater they showed in Pennsylvania was not the crash of a jetliner. I’d accept that the jetliner exploded in mid-air and that little crater was one of the engines impacting, but, the jetliner? No.
I know enough to know the concept of “coincidence” doesn’t happen during a crime. In this case, it was Bush scheduling a photo-op at an elementary school that just happened to one town over from where the “terrorists” trained in Florida only seven days prior to 9/11. Didn’t you find it amazing that within 24 hours, the FBI and Secret Service knew who the terrorists were, where they lived, where they trained? I did.
I know from having a “law enforcement only” briefing by the FBI that the FBI had tracked all of the 19 terrorists around the world for up to 20 years, some of them in the desert remote regions of Afghanistan, yet, they claimed that when these terrorists came to the United States, suddenly, they couldn’t find ONE of them for that entire year. Not ONE.
And I know, that when I saw George W. Bush react to being told, on camera, that America was under attack, I did not see a look of surprise, shock, or horror. I saw a man hear the words, look off into the distance, and get a little smirk or smile on his face. That is what I saw. And keep in mind, I am not claiming I could look into his “soul”. I am saying that a cop learns how to read a persons expression out of necessity when you are on the road. You learn to see when they get angry, or scared, or surprised, so that you can anticipate actions. Your life depends on that ability.
Could he have simply been dumb-founded? Maybe. But, if he had been shocked, his head would have whipped over to look at Andrew Card. It didn’t.
Do I think that there will ever be a true investigation? No.
No, this will simply become, now and forever, the most sensational conspiracy theory ever. But, do not try to marginalize those of us who have good reason to question the official story as “nuts”.
You simply aren’t able to track 19 people around the globe, into the furthest most desolate reaches of it, only to lose all 19 at the same time, for the same amount of time, in our own backyard, and, then all 19 of those people perpetrate the most heinous terrorist attack over on our shores. Do you believe that story? Because that is exactly what the FBI told us in that briefing.
A building (WTC 7) doesn’t simply drop into its own footprint, no matter how many fires are raging in it, without some other factor coming into play. Do you believe it can? I don’t.
Do you believe that you could be told, out of the blue, that the second World Trade Center had been struck by an airplane, that America was under attack, and you wouldn’t whip your head to look at the man telling you that? I don’t. I would want to look at that man telling me that, not look into space visualizing… something… as my mouth curls up into… something… and then sit there for another 30 minutes till I left that school… finishing that photo-op… and giving an interview at the end of it.
And yes, as an EOD tech, I pulled four secret service missions for three Presidents; Reagan, Bush Sr, and Clinton. I know how they act. So, I know what I didn’t see that day. I did not see ONE agent grab George W. Bush and get him out of that school. If you think that isn’t strange, let me explain something to you.
The President was at an elementary school with a secret service travel team. It became confirmed that the weapons used in the attacks were airplanes flown into buildings. If there was any doubt, any at all, that the President could be in danger, and, he was, it is secret service protocol to drag him out of that building, forcibly if necessary, to protect him. Did you see ONE secret service agent moving with a purpose? I didn’t. That meant they were ordered to stand down by someone who gave them an overwhelming reason to believe that the President was in no danger whatsoever. That he could finish that photo-op, give an interview, and then get to Air Force One.
Does that mean that our government pulled a false-flag? I don’t know. Does that mean that they knew the attack was coming and let it happen? I don’t know. I don’t have those answers, and, frankly, I doubt we ever will.
I, like Jesse, know enough to question the official story.
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Just thank you, and docudharma, a place that we can actually ask the hard questions.
A sounding board where, just because we ask, are not marginalized for demanding the answers.
Thanks Michael … great diar….. ooops …. I mean essay.
(old habits hard to break)
that those are the only possible scenarios and I really don’t know enough about the situation to agree with some of the facts you present, but I’d first like to say that, yes, it’s nice that we can ask these questions here.
Second, have you seen this – http://www.nyccan.org/index.php ?
It’s a ballot initiative in New York City that will start a new, independent 9/11 investigation. I found out about it when Mike Gravel started campaigning for it right after he ended his presidential campaign. They’re submitting about 45,000 signatures on July 3rd, supposedly.
Thank you for writing this essay.
I really can’t say it enough.
Thanks so much for this.
I agree with your calling out Tocque for his inconsistencies in the now-infamous diary. It’s one of the things I criticized in his GBCW, that he creates a fairly arbitrary line between what he considers ‘crazy’ and legitimate CT, then absolves himself of craziness by virtue of his own definitions. It’s tautological, and as such it’s entirely unhelpful.
But I do disagree with some of the conclusions you draw here. I’m not a detonation guy so I have to defer to people who know much more than I do, but (anathema as though this may be), I found the explanations by Popular Mechanics and Debunking the 9/11 Myths to be pretty convincing. As an example, in a comment thread above you have a back-and-forth about the angle-cut steel columns and thermite blasts, but I found this much more convincing because, among other things, it tries to source the photographs to pinpoint timelines.
I certainly don’t have inside knowledge to how things went down on 9/11 (I was in a seminar, and didn’t know about it until hours afterwards), but so far there’s nothing that sets off any particular warning alarms for me. Bumbling themselves into a corner and then lying to cover up their own inadequacies was fairly standard behavior by the Bush administration, and the general confusion of what was happening on that morning more than suffices to explain some of the weirder behavior (again, in my opinion).
The reason your discussion gets dismissed as crazy has to do with the logistics of what you suggest: that is, not that the gov’t had planted explosive material at the bottom of a building, but that they found a way to coordinate the detonations with two well-choreographed airplane collisions in such a way that no one was the wiser. I tend to be a pretty skeptical person in general, and to believe something like that, I’d need a lot more than analysis of the angle of a couple of steel beams from photographs whose actual date hasn’t been determined.
But I’d happily support a full investigation, because that’s what investigations are for: to gather and process evidence.
Any way you cut it, there are just reams of unanswered questions. It’s by far the most important event in our nation’s history for this generation and yet we know so little. I don’t really know what to think, but I agree that the facts that you’ve put on the table are basic truths, and the story does not add up, and that we have a right to know the whole truth about what happened that day.
If I had come up with a future scenario, wherein 19 Saudis were to take over four aircraft, right here in the US, using box-cutters as weapons, crash two of them into the twin towers, one into the Pentagon, & the other god knows where, without one interceptor scrambled properly, with Norad, scratching their ass, & Bush not being hustled to immediate safety when it was known, & that later both towers would collapse & seven hours later(?) building seven would free-fall, I would have been committed to an asylum.
Yet, now we should believe that.
NOT
In my opinion, James Douglass’s recent book JFK and the Unspeakable furnishes enough new evidence and enough persuasive argumentation about people’s motivations that I now consider the Oliver Stone/Fletcher Prouty thesis that the CIA and the military-industrial complex killed Kennedy to be essentially proved. A lot of the details of how it was done remain unknown, and probably unknowable at this point. So to that extent I do agree with you.