Yes we do have Rulez here!
Obviously with the much lower traffic there are few opportunities to trot them out, since we have made a concerted effort to keep them to a minimum. but we DO have them!
Over the last few days we have been in what I consider an exceptional time. Thus I have made an exception to one of our few, but perhaps the strongest rule we have. And it is time, in my judgment to start easing it back in to place.
This is not an Anti-Dkos site. This is not a Dkos bashing site.
People have needed to express themselves. But any site that exists merely to oppose another site is a failure. The Rule is not in place for Dkos’s benefit. It is in place for the benefit of Docudharma. We are a better blog when we concentrate on real issues, not another blog.
So it is time to rein it in….please.
No one will be …heh….banned for Kos-bashing over the next day or two, but I will start writing the dreaded Strongly Worded Letters to those who persist!
Thanks!
Docudharma is about discussing and debating ideas. All ideas. We are not about being respected by other media or electing …anyone. That gives us the opportunity to discuss politics and everything else, freely. Our nominal focus is on finding a way to create a better future, but that is mainly because we needed a nominal focus! Other than the usual parameters of relatively civilized behavior, there is nothing out of bounds. Vigorous debate is encouraged, not shunned, and if you cross the legendary ‘line,’ folks will call you on it. Vigorously.
Inflammatory discussion of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is not allowed. What constitutes inflammatory is my subjective call. If you wish to publish on this issue please e-mail me for more details.
There are some other things that are not allowed here, but they are just the basics. Threatening or calling for or planning violence, spamming, fundraising or publishing pedophilia. These things will get you warned and if you persist… quickly banned. As will excessive and prolonged Assholery. Assholery is of course subjective, but basically consists of NOT debating ideas, but attacking or stalking other posters. Attacks on other posters WHILE discussing ideas is discouraged, but since it happens on every blog everywhere inevitably, we have to some extent surrendered to it here at Docudharma.
…..
Conspiracy theories are allowed, Dirty Fucking Hippies are welcomed with open arms, and Republicans who are not overly dogmatic are tolerated. To reiterate, this is NOT a site to elect Democrats. NEITHER IS IT A DAILY KOS BASHING SITE. There are plenty of other places to do that.
All of the ‘rules’ are subject to …..MY subjectivity. All of these rules are changeable. And challengable! But….I am The Decider. The Zen Dictator of Docudharma…meaning, I will have a hands off policy and position as much as is possible, but if it comes to me having to make a decision, I will do so as quickly as possible and take full responsibility for it. If the site is successful and we get too big for me to pay attention to every case, the rules will be changed. Which should lead to some interesting discussions!
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I do like the focus on civilized discussion here…
I knew you would be on this. A little dignity is always a good thing.
SWL’s!
I think everyone will calm down pretty soon and get back to business.
because it would get awful boring reading comments about how nasty some other site is. Better to discuss issues and generate ideas than dwell on the negatives…..
j/k, a call for restraint is always a good thing!!
least follow your guidance!
you might have mentioned our strict no outing policy, our collective discussion of disciplininary actions, temporary suspension, and our policies about civility and the use of the wrong rating.
But kos bashing is the principal issue at the moment.
Elmo?
Fine.
In order to spare Kos’s feelings, I’ll bash the hell out of Elmo instead.
warning to keep us in line.
However, the reason that people are signing up here is because of the things they don’t like about dKos.
Today you just posted TocqueDeville’s GBCW on dKos (it is currently #1) in which he writes:
This is not “bashing” certainly–I hope, because I’d hate to see TocqueDeville banned from here–but it is a pointed criticism of some of the problems with the leading progressive blog community on the web. To raise these issues is to discuss what one does not want to see a blog become, so mention of dKos in a negative context can be constructive and not bashing.
I hope that this distinction is clear. I am a long time dKos poster and a great fan of the site. What Markos has accomplished is truly revolutionary. But, as with anything, it is important for this form of media to evolve and it is only through a vigorous discussion of what is right and what is wrong with a given form that progress is made.
not to kick kos around. You get to actually read and write about the real villains or heroes and it opens new avenues that are not so cannibalistic, way more entertaining and saves your ire for the real problems, you mind is then freed up to solve the problems and of course convince your fellow dhramaites that you have the right solutions LOL.
I can keep doin’ that, right?
–question asked of Butch Cassidy by Harvey Logan in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, immediately before Butch kicked Harvey in the nuts.
I recently signed up here because of your recent torture diaries and also the resemblance to DK but without the noise. I noticed some of the diarists here were also posting there. I love DK and I don’t plan on leaving there, but I see it for what it is, a privately owned blog.
I’d gotten it out of my system anyway.
Just curious, though, has kos banned you for posting Toque’s GBCW?
’tis getting a bit noisy elsewhere.
I just decided to join docudharma because I’ve never entirely liked Dailykos but I love a lot of the people there, and since some of the same people are here and there seem to be a decent amount of people here, I thought it would be a good place to join. The Tocquedeville stuff pushed me over the edge and, while I’m not off Dailykos entirely, I’ll see if there are any other websites that have a similar amount of activity as it and are as engaging.
I’ve said my peace about it, thanks for allowing us our rant 🙂
Thank you for posting this.
I might refer to the orange place, but never liked talking about others negatively.
I always figure that whatever anybody says behind my back is none of my business.
I like your house because of the positiveness of it.
It`s not nice when negativism rears it`s head.
on the blogs would be a good one to have sometime–whether related to Kos, Huffington, or whatever. And also, at some point need to talk about paid by astroturf-industry/corporate bloggers, which I believe was also a forbidden topic (on dk).
Of course, I’m way to lazy to write about any of that meself.
goes to the issue of whether a blog that purports to be a progressive, reality based community is more of a hideout for reactionary attitudes, where tolerance is not allowed and insulting others is virtually a requisite.
I often do not comment about things when I agree with the substance. That’s easy. I usually offer remarks that try to elevate the discussion, often in disagreement, as I will continue here. I have been there since the start, but more and more cannot recognize that I am among progressives.
Is that bashing? Or speaking my own truth?
In any event, I once recommended that there be a quota of comments one may make in a week. That might cause people to hit cancel more often. Is that a bad suggestion?
and I must say I like the tone better already. I am quite interested in learning more about the site and appreciate reading that you are interested in hearing from people of all political stripes. Thank you for posting TDV’s response to banning – I might not have been convinced to check out this site had you not.
to use this then?
I also find the atmosphere at DKos to be problematic lately, and budhy, I think your treatment of the ToqueDeville matter, and to say nothing of the ToqueDeville’s intelligent analysis of some of the drawbacks of Kos’s format were the best advertisements this site ever could have asked for.
I’m also a little troubled by the seeming whimsicality of who is banned, and who isn’t, the packs of troll-raters, “the off-limits” topics and the group think consensus against Green Party members, libertarians, and other small identities within the progressive family.
Looking forward to seeing what’s what around here.
For my part, you can find my blog here, and I moderate discussion at the politics forum The New Cafe – the surviving offspring of what were once both the Cafe Utne, and Alternet on-line communities.
I just stumbled upon this website after reading your post on DKos this afternoon. I’m glad I found it for a number of reasons; namely, it’s another voice to be heard.
While I am glad I’ve been at DKos for some time now, I mostly lurk and read the posts. Some are more enlightening than others and I’m glad that one of those posts enlightened me with regard to this site.
Another site that offers crazy pinko commie liberals a milk crate from which to speak is fine with me.
I’ve bookmarked the site and look forward to reading the contributions of all the writers.
Houle bashing? I guess we do. :-/
Back again.
Sayin’ Hellooooo to the DD peoples.
Cheers!
That, M. le Buhdy, is not how leftwing blog owning autocrats address the lowly serfs and peons and essayists. Such imprecision will never do. You may wish to edit the sentence. Do try the royal we, or the plural imperative, i.e. begin with “Thou shalt not…” /snark
…as it is our communal disappointment.
Yes, I was a Deaniac. And became a lurker at DKos because it was originally a Dean supporting site. Big disclaimer on the front page about how Markos had done internet work for the Doc and everything.
After the primaries, that all changed. SYFPH was the cry of the day, and there was a semi-undercover group of board thugs who would hound anyone that wasn’t fond of Sen.Kerry.
People would actually post about how dissent would only serve to embolden the Repugs, that ‘message discipline’ must be put into play.
Hogwash. I posted numerous times, telling any chowderhead that might be reading, that they were seriously over-estimating the influence of DKos. The site is a tool for Dem insiders and it’s basically their ball-peen hammer. That is exactly how important it really is, aside from also being Markos’ meal ticket. But egos get too damned big
Three years ago it was banning people who questioned where Markos was truly getting his money from. Banning people who were getting “too important” and might be taking advantage of the stage that Big Orange offered. Now they’ve decided that any tiny infraction from a less than adored site user is a banning offence.
It’s gotten to be too much, and I’ve said my piece about it. So, is honest commentary bashing? Anyway, I’m done there
Nice mission statement, BTW.
But who let all these OND-types in the door???
😀
…I’m falling behind on my granite-chiseling of all the new rules in progressive blogosphere-land.
I have them all lined up against the walls of my room to consult while typing a comment. It’s gettin’ crowded in here!
I haven’t figured out how to install detectors for the thought police, so I find myself limiting my thoughts to one or two carefully edited remarks a day.
One cannot be too careful.
So, I got an email from President Obama today about supporting his healthcare reform. It really doesn’t sound like the one he promoted in his campaign, which was the one I liked better between the two.
I was hoping for that public option that gave me access to the same coverage as our glorious toga-wearing senators. Oh, wait, togas are not in vogue this century. But I digress.
Yesterday, the coin-operated doctor I am forced to patronize for my top-shelf medical care, refused to refill my antiviral script unless I come spend $200 with his clinic. He knows I have a chronic case of shingles that causes debilitating pain and agony. I more or less begged him to give me more time to come give him more money and refill my script.
In happy-happy sunshine world where ill patients are dollar signs, he cheerfully declined my request.
So for my birthday, which is Saturday, I am getting another round of excruciating pain as the virus regains ground.
It’s the rules, ya know. The corporate Hippocratic Oath is about dollars, not patients.
Oh, well, thanks Budhy for this venue, this opportunity to have our say. I will treat this gift in the same spirit in which it is given — with profound respect.
for fear of “bashing!”
I come over here from DKos to escape the meta and noise and generally cut through the crap that comes from a site with 210,000 registered users.
I was disappointed to see that the meta storm blew over here. I understand everyone needed to vent. (Personally I stayed out of it.) I was just about to quietly slink away due to the bashing. This makes me feel better.
smashing?
Hashing?
Trashing?
Lashing?
Get back to me asap. I need to know!
I’ll go on the record and say that both Tocque and Inky are terrible diarists – and I don’t understand all the love for their sloppy, ill-conceived work – but I’m happy that you’re offering a community that’s less reflexive about penalties and banning, and trying to keep the level of discussion at a more detached and self-conscious level. There’s a place for everyone, and communities are constantly in a state of flux, which makes a site like this valuable.
And thank you for posting Tocque’s GBCW over at dkos, not because I agree with it (it was pretty awful), but because it was a classy thing to do.
De-lurked just to say hello and offer my best wishes to everyone.
I commend your stand on Kos, Buhdy!
So what does it take to get a pony around here?
don’t put too much of a strain on all the old folks.
I know you all were comfy.
I so appreciate the space provided, the color blue, and the tone that goes with it.
However, I have an intense commitment to building a movement of grassroots progressive-Left power, and lots of ideas about it. There are things I recommend, and things I urge against. As with anything it’s usually easiest to illustrate such points by example. For instance, just yesterday I introduced the CUB here as a positive example. The truth is that a lot of the policies, politics, strategy and tactics that I consider weak and erroneous are central motifs at dkos, and most folks here will have an easier familiarity with something like dkos than the CUB, sad but true. Therefore it makes a good source to draw illustration of weaknesses and flawed practices from. I’m just going to proceed doing what I do, I’ll let you make your calls. I think you’ve seen me around long enough to know that I’m not petty, that my problem tends to be in the direction of thinking too big. I have my negative motivations just like anyone else, but personal spitefulness doesn’t tend to rank very highly. So I’ll just go forward and we’ll play by er if you don’t mind.
or should i go away? I just signed up. If ya don’t want me here that’s cool though.
It’s going to be wild around here! This is exciting.
When I think of DD, the first thought is the entreaty to ‘be excellent to each other’. I am not a mean person but sometimes in my haste I forget to practice this. This place IS excellent and always challenges me, inspires me, and encourages me to be a better person and act on my beliefs.
I mostly lurk and read and think. I would like to write if I had more free time. That’s not happening in my life right now. I am happy for new energy even if the way it was yesterday was really great.
politics are much further left than his so it just wasn’t fitting in as my political blog home anymore. I’m liking the feel of this site though! I’ve always appreciated buhdydharmas post and I’m wondering why I haven’t come here sooner!
Wait till you get banned and then raked over the coals for a year or two.
I posted something almost verbatim to this at MLW.
The DKos bashing died down eventually. It flares up again from time to time. Right now, it’s flaring up again — and it’s mostly my own fault. And actually, it’s not MUCH of a flare-up.
I think you’ll find it dies down of its own accord, if you let it have its own cycle.
Of course, you DO have to rein in the HORDES of DKos-bashers, if they come here in droves. DKos exiles who comes to a site SPECIFICALLY to loose their fury and do NOTHING else… like Francis L. Holland… man, I HAD to ban him. He did NOTHING but vent his Markos hatred and conspiracy theories. I’ve paid a heavy price for that banning, but the dude just posted dairy after diary after diary. It was killing my site.
So, yeah… it’s a balancing act.
It never ceases to amaze me how addicted to meta blogs get and quick. I had one day of it at my place, then demoted the essays to get back to the REAL stuff.
Otherwise, it just feeds on itself.
Besides, blogs are what they are, and the quickest to bash other blogs/people are always the quickest to bitch when it happens to them.
I despise meta blog wars, yet get sucked in myself at times. Luckily I get over them quick, and they only pop up once or twice a year at my place.
Take care this doesn’t become a week long multi-essay bashfest. That sucks all the air out of a blog, you know.
Been there. Done that.
Bitching never changes the douches anyway.
Sorry about your kos treatment, but you have an EXCELLENT blog!
l,
diane
I am a long time KOS fan who has a question about the dKos site that I have not been able to find an answer to. This, I hope, will not be seen as an anti-kos attack but a hope somebody here will feel free to share the answer.
My question, and I apologize for not having more specifics, but it seems to me, maybe about in 2004, Kos got into some kind of a controversy over atrios or somebody being a paid consultant to some politician or something and Kos was somehow involved? Does this ring a bell with anybody?
At the time, the internet had Kos’ response to other bloggers along the lines of “please allow this to go by unscrutinized for now because my life would be a lot easier if you did”. It seemed that Kos was promising to make a clear explanation later when the time was right but I never caught it.
Can anyone help explain this to me?
i just signed up, and thought i’d say hallo…
I’m not a DK refugee in the ‘banned’ sense, but recent developments there, along with (what i perceive to be) a change in tone, have me on the hunt for something different. Lately the whole issue of community has been heavy on my mind, and certain aspects of the big orange seem antithetical to my own personal notions of what that word should mean. Hopefully that doesn’t come off as bashing (it’s not intended to be), but by way of introduction i just thought i’d put myself in a bit of context.
I’m looking forward to reading,learning & hopefully contributing in some way. I’ve only just begun perusing past discussions/topics – but it’s already been very nice to see a whole bunch of familiar names that i’ve missed seeing at DK. I’ve long wondered where certain people migrated…..and, happily, it seems quite a few of them are right here.
Anyway…Friendly greetings to all 🙂
Well since some are new to this…here:
Take your pick.
I’ve had my axe handle for a while:
lost the blade to grind.
in my post announcing my reasons for divorcing myself from the site. Onward and upward. So much work to do, criminals to bring to justice, and wrongs to right.
Thanks though Budhy, for letting me post that one.
I just got back from my “chemo” trip to California, and have lots of ideas for diaries, given all the news of late. I’ll start tomorrow….
Only carnage!!!!!!!!
I got banned responding to you btw.
Guilty by dingleberry, wtf?!
A) I just signed up, and
B) I’m not a spammer.
I’m sort of tired of the cheerleading over at orange state, so who knows? Maybe I’ll be here more often.
Not to plug my own blog (See “not a spammer”, above) but if you’d rather “pre-judge” me than listen to and agree or disagree with what I say I have a web site and a blog/public message board at timbuk3.com. Or, search my comments on the great orange Satan.
No worries. I’m not afraid to speak my mind.
as a sort of blogger’s insurance in case I say anything Markos feels is ban-worthy over there, and found out that I had already signed up a while ago.
I love it when things work out like that!
. . . A guy could get banned at DKos for rec’ing a diary about a poster who was banned for posting a diary about the fact that certain topics cannot be discussed, and then come over here and get banned for talking about the fact that DKos banned him for rec’ing a diary about a poster . . .
Well, I do hope you give us at least a couple of days. DKos is the first place I ever registered, posted a comment and wrote an online diary, and I’ve been more or less exclusively there since then. It’s a big deal to me, that the one place that I thought was a place where I could read about, post about and discuss the major political issues of our day, now turns out not to be, because the owner of the site has asserted his private property rights in order exclude any discussion of the most important political event of my life. If I’m leaving DKos, then that would be the most important event of my online political/blogging career, and yet now I have a small window of only two days to discuss it?
But I suppose I don’t really blame you. My need for psychological adjustment to this new reality cannot trump the real need for DD to be relevant as something other than the anti-DK, and it probably would devolve into that if you let it.
I may just have to go back to working and surfing all the time (my pre-Kos, pre-Obama life) . . . this has all gotten to be too much!
I’m not new here, b/c I sometimes lurked, but today I signed up. I was a long time DK user, never really did diaries, just commented. Things have been different there for a while, but the TDV stuff really bothered me. So I decided to add DocuDh to my progressive site list.
Btw, I was tossed from a horse at an early age, so am leery of them. Ponies, howsomeever are a different thing. My love is for donkeys though :-).
Thanks, Buhdy for having this refuge.
like the site masquerading as a progressive, liberal site, proclaiming its power in the blogosphere, without some kind of feedback calling him on it when its not.
from you know where. I’ve been awed multiple times by buhdy’s posts, have read through this whole thread, and dammitall, it sounds like a fine place to hang. I may still go over to the other site, to kick some cheney-esque butts that deserve it, on occasion. But this sure looks like a pleasant cafe you’ve set up here, buhdy.
I’m licking my wounds, tonight. Gee whiz, the Senate just voted today for more funding to buy more boards and nails to crucify our troops. I’m a member of Military Families Speak Out. Any other MFSO members hang here?
Just checked DK to read stuff (reading only, since I’m banned) and Al Rogers now has a piece up basically telling anyone who complains about DK at other sites (and he’s obviously talking about this place for the most part as far as I can tell) should just go ahead and leave DK.
Wow, what a way to treat your audience.
DK seems to have forgotten that without the people who actually WRITE stuff there, they’ve got nothing. Or at least very very little.
(did I just bash them? Sorry …..)
I spent a long time lurking at Daily Kos, couple of years actually, and I’ve noticed that the conversation there seems to be getting mean spirited. Doesn’t mean that I still won’t go there, its just disappointing. However, I found out about this site from everything that had been going on there over the last few days. Anyways, this place seems to have a lighter atmosphere, so maybe I’ll lurk around here too. Maybe even force myself to write something once in awhile. Hehe.
http://freespeechzoneblog.com/…
Disrespected, personal info was fair game, blackmailed, and banned.