( – promoted by buhdydharma )
It’s Monday so usually the first thing the Dog writes is the weekly torture letter,that is going to be a little later but there is something going on that he thinks the DD crew is uniquely suited to address. We are seeing a massive increase in the number of torture apologist articles in the newspapers and on the Web. This is the an attempt by the pro-torture camp, aided by the weakest kneed of the pundocracy to set the frame for the issue with the vast majority of population who are troubled about torture but not yet on board with investigations and prosecutions.
As a group of dedicated torture bloggers we need to push back on this, and do it in a systematic way. Just last week we had both Thomas Friedman (Bozo Deluxe of the New York Times) and Charles Krauthammer (a wanker of such massive proportion he can be seen from space, as in light years away) putting out spurious arguments apologizing for torture and trying to preempt any investigation or prosecution.
The best thing we can do is take these arguments apart, point by point showing them to be the empty propaganda of a group who is wetting their pants at the idea that there will be accountability under the rule of law for the actions they have supported. Now, the Dog already has kind of a full plate on torture. He writes at least twice a week on the topic as well as his Constitution series. If there is anyone that would like to take this on as a regular gig, the Dog is happy to support it and step aside.
There is also something to be said for more than one person doing it. There are lots of great points of view on this community and having more voices speaking out regularly only makes our point that much more strongly.
So, is there anyone interested in taking this on? It is really not that hard as the arguments these fools make are clearly wrong. They constantly make a false claim that we had to do this, that it worked (there is exactly no evidence for this except the self interested comments of those likely to be investigated for conspiracy to commit torture), and that we can not have the rule of law because of politics. Just hitting the rebuttal on those will be enough to keep these memes from becoming the conventional wisdom.
This is where the real work of getting investigations done starts folks. It is not enough to win the minds of those in charge; we have to keep the public support up if we want to see this all the way through.
One thing we should start doing is keeping a list and posting it, call it the Torture Is Okey-Dokey Columnist List. The first two to make it so far are Freidman and Krauthammer, the Dog is sure it is going to grow, exponentially, so these fools will not be lonely for long.
The floor is yours.
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if no one else can get to it, I’ll take it on.
I can’t take it on singlehandedly. I tend to need to take unexpected “flake out” breaks and put it down for a couple of days at a time. I also tend to specialize in subtopics surrounding torture.
Heather and I are writing a radio show. It will be geared to getting apologist’s arugments off the table, and will be a combination of questions, stories, and analysis. Since the two project are in agreement with one another, I can contribute as I go along.
So help, yes. Produce on a deadline? Probably not.
In his syndicated column last week he came out for an investigation but no prosecutions.
He regurgitated the “9/11 was so horrible that torture, wrong as it is, was understandable”.
Keillor is a multi millionire and one sees a syndrome where monied elites see themselves as not being subject to laws that ordinairy Americans are subject to.
has once more crawled out of a hole in the earth to try reviving the old “you’re helping the enemy” and “liberals are losing the war for us” and “we need torture cuz it works” idiocy, in an interview with MSNBC’s Dan Abrams:
at the orange, and I probably have a lot of those bookmarked, packrat queen that I am. 😉
Once Summer is here, Ill probably have to back off a bit.
I was snooping around yesterday at ACLU, they have a lot of good pushback materials there too…. Fact Sheets and such.
the right wing and the pundits of mass destruction. I find it appalling that when I read a diary like Hunter’s this morning, the comments always break down into political terms. The ‘debate’ becomes political, the commenters do not condone torture but refuse in many cases to advocate the legal remedies or even acknowledge that these crimes are above politics,or that power is only relegated by the law.
Public opinion does not shape the law. This is not a case of criminalizing policy or politics, this is a high crime, a crime against humanity. It politically has reshaped our very system and our democratic republic is being torn apart. Even a political pragmatist gains nothing when our laws and system are destroyed and the laws are subject only to the king and the king’s men, regardless of D or R. Crimes like these cannot be left behind unless we move forward to being a lawless rogue state, one that has lost it’s foundation and it’s humanity both here and in the world.
sort of ad hoc, anyway. But getting them all in the same place is the trick.
We should agree on a tag, as we did with the “action” essays, and then we may be able to put a box on the right column.
I will check with OTB.
But what shoud the tag be?
Refuting torture?
I agree with the basic premise here, Dog, and its important to keep up with the pushback, the refuting of blatant lies, etc. But I have some q’s…
what’s the point of it being lefties talking to lefties? Who needs “convincing”? I mean, where do you want to see these pushbacks “published”? beyond the Orange or TPM or FDL…?
Thats one thing. Then two… the pushing is okay, but I think there needs to be some nudging too. Ya know that old thing about those 60% who are in the middle? Forget the 10% who are way over there, they are unconvinceable and not worth the trouble (to some degree). (We have to counterbalance their bs, but we are not going to convert them to our POV).
And I think that you go at it from MANY different angles. What Heather is doing with her stories that personalize it, is vital. That hits an awful lot of people “where they live” so to speak.
But it all needs a broader audience.
Heres my thinking. Theres various feelings or positions by the Peopl.In.The.Middle. and various ways to approach them. Then, in addition, I feel like – I could be way wrong – but I just cant believe theres not more (or louder) yelling coming from Vet groups and military families. I know theres some, but… anyway… then lastly, religious groups… a la this website.
So its all floating out there I guess, but what seems to be lacking is a coordinated effort, a cohesive Voice.
Ive said these things before.
And then… (see what you started?! lol) pushback on media shit. like that 60 Minutes piece last night.
PS, by the way, did anyone notice the diary at DK this morning by Muzikal? “Send in the Clowns: Ashcroft & Gonzales try to justify torture”
This was my comment to her TJ:
… this article in the New Yorker by Philip Gourevitch illustrates something that troubles me.
I see this over and over again — folks admitting we’re in “uncharted waters,” that this is basically unprecedented, and then making predictions that somehow prosecutions are “sensational,” or otherwise flawed whereas “a full and public reckoning” would somehow magically be without sensationalism or politicking.
The crystal balls are sure out with these writers. I think Gourevitch is a good writer, not a torture apologist, but this kind of slant (as well as Michael Kinsley’s WaPo piece, which we already discussed) needs to be responded to as well.
Hope that makes sense.
I had been thinking about combing through all of the documents and trying to assemble them chronologically. We are learning what happened, but not the key “who knew what and when.”
Anyway, here’s another liar:
Toward the end of the clip, Perino says “torture did not occur.
http://polidics.com/cia/top-ra…