Disgust for Obama’s “lack of Change” runs high here, as we see from this thread.
And that is fine.
I am not as convinced….or as cynical…as some folks here about him, mainly because of one thing.
If we don;t work with him….WHO DO we work with?
If we give up on him and JUST condemn him….what does that gain US?
If we ‘take out’ or condemn or even just give up on our “closest ally,” even if that ally, to your eyes sucks…..
What do we have left?
Ok you think Obama sucks….
NOW WHAT?
What is the plan to get what you want? What are you going to do to get the change you don’t see him bringing?
You can work to protest him, to pressure him, to Change HIM….
Or you can give up.
Those are the only to choices I see, can you, anyone, give me another?
He is the closest thing we have to an ally, he is the best TOOL we have for change. So do YOU want to be effective and suck it up and do what you can do to bring change?
Or do you only care about being RIGHT that he is not a savior?
And spend the energy you could use on being effective to just prove your point over and over again that he sucks?
That is my strategic POV, have at it. Tell me why I am wrong. Let’s argue!
BUT……
I have a request.
In that thread, dkmich says this to MotherTrucker…
You gave me a wrong. Should I run away?
You are missing the whole point of docudharma. People get to strongly disagree without getting hurt or feeling attacked.
That is what DD is supposed to be indeed.
But…..obviously…..Mother Trucker DID feel attacked, she DID get hurt. So much so that she has said she was leaving.
Gosh this is SO very reminiscent of what just about ALL of us have faced on DK isn’t it?
Now I KNOW that no one person here intended to treat her non-mainstream opinion EXACTLY as non-mainstream opinion is treated at Dkos.
This was NO one persons fault. There is NOT a villain in this piece.
But hey guess what? As a group effect that is exactly what happened, isn’t it?
It is a dynamic, that no one person has control over…and thus is difficult to control at all.
As far as I can tell MotherTrucker is not an “Obamabot.” Nor is she thinskinned or overly sensitives. She just has a different POV, a minority POV.
Just like YOU do, lol, at Dkos.
Here was my comment in that thread:
The dynamic of blogging is such that the minority voice has to be encouraged.
I hereby encourage you and MotherTruckers voice in ‘defense’ of Obama.
Even though I tend to be more on the critical side, if we are to have a real dialog and not be an echo chamber it is important for me, as “the voice of the blog” to let the minority voices know that they are welcomed…..
And that I admire the courage it takes to take a stand and express opinions that go against the mainstream.
The dynamic of blogging UNINTENTIONALLY (for the most part) produces an atmosphere of being ‘shouted down.’ Even if the shout down IS polite and respectful as it is here. (which is in my experience as polite and respectful as anywhere on the web)
Just as the First Amendment is in place to protect and encourage the minority to speak up, I hope this comment has the same effect.
Iow….I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it here. And I consider that to be the policy of the blog.
My request is….
Be aware of that dynamic of blogging
Be aware when you are piling on. Be aware of the feelings of the person you are arguing with.
Be aware when the majority is IN EFFECT shouting down the minority.
Even if that is not your intention.
Be aware of the dynamic that is needed to let minority voices be heard.
Even if they are wrong.
You don’t like it when it happens to you, don’t be a part of the dyanamic of doing it to someone else.
I can’t tell you how.
I can;t tell you to stop or not to do it.
But I can and am asking you to be AWARE of the dynamic.
Please.
Otherwise, we are no better than “them.”
I know very well that these are frustrating times. I know very well we want to express that frustration.
Let’s decide NOT to take our frustrations out on each other.
No matter how wrong we think that Other is, lol.
Please?
Be excellent to each other, as much as you can, even when you disagree. Even when you disagree STRONGLY, lol.
Thanks!
53 comments
Skip to comment form
Author
take a very long time. There could be a move to form another party on the left and pressure all Dems that way. The thing is we have not seen any party formed in the last 50 years that has had anything like the electoral support this tactic would need.
You all (or at least many of you) know I don’t favor this. I say if we are that spun up we need to start running in primaries. Just talking about it has pushed me from a fringe guy in my County party to someone who at the very least gets to weigh in on issues.
We know we need better Dems, well, friends and neighbors I am telling you they are staring at you every morning, the only thing that is needed is action.
Yeah, most of us will get our asses handed to us the first time we run. But so what? If we want to effect policy, we have to be in the game. The way to get there is to step up and say you have a better way.
… how to bridge the divide between these two kind of thinking, then kudos to you.
I’ve seen you make some headway on this over at the orange, but way more often there’s folks where even you hit a brick wall.
And you have folks here who came here because all they were told over at the orange is that they were “impatient,” “having a tantrum,” and “wanting a pony now!” That initial comment posted here pushed a lot of buttons.
The conditioning of the Obama loyalists produces its own backlash and this is one of the few sites where that can be worked out.
I don’t want to see that changed even when I don’t agree with the views on Obama.
the majority of what you see here as “give up on him and JUST condemn him” is not that at all, but rather people fed up with seeing him continue the things he’s been doing, which are essentially an extension of the past eight years and in some cases taken much farther that the past eight years, but is instead is peoples way of trying to yell louder, and agitate for and create as much pressure for real change as they can.
and you call yourself an agent of change!
has a “minority opinion” when it comes to this site, I’ll offer my experience – for what that’s worth.
I don’t know if I ever felt “shouted down,” but there is so much that I’d read here daily that I disagreed with, I found myself feeling defensive all the time. Then, when I’d try to join in a conversation – I approached it from that defensive place. That is not the way to have dialogue. That’s why I needed to take a break.
The point of view here is very strong!!! There are times I think that perhaps that’s ok. Maybe there’s a role for sites like this to play. But if that’s the case – then the point of view should be out front so people know what to expect.
Finally, my experience has also been that there is a dynamic where we paint ourselves into a corner on some of these opinions and other people caricature us as such when we disagree. My thoughts and opinions are much more nuanced than they tend to appear and other people tend to assume. I wonder if we don’t all have many more questions than it seems sometimes. Those questions could be fodder for some powerful learning and growth if we could get find a way to get at them. That’s my opinion on it all anyway.
my inner human being shows up and overrides my personal being. Dang dude!
I don’t dislike Obama, actually at this point, I don’t have any feelings one way or the other. I prefer to look past Obama at systems that are preventing change.
(not that my viewpoint is unique but…)
The Republicans are brazenly, openly the party of big money and if war means profits then fine and dandy!
The Democrats are simply the party of bad faith.
I joke that the Republicans will kill you and take your wallet while the Democrats will just rob you and let you have the empty wallet to let you know they care.
Neither of the parties will allow change and if the President doesn’t fight every day, as loudly as he can, then there’s no hope of anything ever happening. Even then it’s probably hopeless. We have a system where legislation has to get to the President before we can have health care or clean air or whatever and our representatives are not interested in those.
At this point believing in Obama is an ironic definition of hope, as in “I hope he meant what he said because I don’t really see him doing anything other than talk”. It’s existential, like Camus deciding that becoming involved in politics is “good” since, if nothing matters, alienation is as meaningless as involvement.
We can believe in Obama if we want to. I mean, might as well. We have no influence so maybe it will make us feel better about the big world. And maybe he’ll surprise us.
interesting diary: Tribes, They Kind Of Matter the other day by webranding over at GOS. In the comments too.
anyway, Ive said before, it is fairly simple, but that doesnt mean it’s easy:
Do unto others as you would have done unto you.
I guess one thing that works for me, wrt getting my buttons pushed, is that I have to step outside to smoke a cig, so I allow that to force me to step away from the keyboard for a mental pause. lol. (If I ever quit, Ill probably fight with you guys way more. lol).
June 15, 2009, Christian Science Monitor
Obama must prosecute Bush-era torture enablers
International law allows no exceptions.
By Larry Cox, executive director of Amnesty International USA
Turns out things like electricity and fridges really are super neat things to have.
I am assuming the universe wanted to remind me in case I had forgotten that last time we had bad weather and no power.
lol.
I spent entirely too much time last night reading through comments at DK in Metor Blades Meta Diary there (and another one by Seneca). I was astounded, really, at the amount of time and energy that went into dealing with trollage. Necessary, I suppose, over there, but made me really appreciate DD, and no worries.
but… in there somewhere Buhdy called some
annoyingunfortunate misguided soul a “kumquat” and it was very funny. It seems like it could be a very DD trend-setter thing to do to… Id like to see that implemented here as a new alternate to calling someone a “Troll”. (Especially when theyre not really).Sounds almost like a term of endearment, dunnit? lol
under the heading meta, so here goes. Where’s ek hornbeck? is he okay? I’m looked for him here but haven’t seen him posting. I’m kinda worried about him.
As for disagreeing I am seeing a big split a coming, on the so called left/liberal side of the Democratic Party and those who actually thought we won. I will try to be more aware of the dynamic but it really is frustrating to watch leemings run off a cliff. Minorities are important, right now I’m having a little problem with Unity. I’m feeling the fierce urgency of now. I think I’ll stay off dkos for a bit as my fingers are quick on the draw. WHO’S SHOUTING? I also don’t like blogging without the views of others that differ in POV or even end results, my favorite bloggers are often at odds with my own personal myopia and agenda.
Someone had to say it. You guys have lost your moral compass.
Just kidding.
As far as Obama playing chess while we’re playing checkers… I can kind of see that. He’s got his wife working issues on the side. She mentions organic gardening and plants some seeds and suddenly it’s a national trend. It’d be great to see her take on Healthcare and have the GOP try and attack an extremely popular first lady. They got away with attacking Hillary, and still do, but Michelle would be a tough target for them politically.
I’m really nervous but also excited to see what will happen in the next 3 and a half years. I have faith and I’m happy with a lot of stuff but I also have questions and disagreements. I’m still waiting for that holy crap, that would not have happened under John McCain, it’s an amazing day to be a Democrat moment. It’s coming…