I mean this appearing on the front page?
“Men are about power and sex, and the power to get sex.
Women are about sustaining the species.
Women love people more for their weaknesses, their humanity, are more forgiving.
Women don’t war for “stuff”… they will only fight to protect their own, or someone they see as in need in of protection, the weak. “
As one who has actually gotten out of the house before, I can say with utmost certainty that women are just as capable of evil, greed, power mongering, stupidity, violence, environmental neglect, or any other loathsome human characteristic you can think of, as men are.
Goddess worship may seem appealing in the abstract. I myself, in my younger days, too saw its allure. As a young, idealistic environmentalist, I latched on to the whole idea of matriarchalism as an antidote for the very, patriarchal growth and expansion problem. But over the years, especially looking at real women in power, I’ve realized it’s a fantasy.
I have no desire to debate that here though. Believe what you want. I don’t care. I do have a problem with the sentence I highlighted though. “Men are about power and sex, and the power to get sex?” Really?
The writer presents both an idealized view of women (does Michelle Malkin fit in there) and a wholly offensive stereotype of men. Neither are remotely connected to reality and by no means deserve a spot on the front page here.
Divide and conquer has been the modus operandi for the plutocrats for a long time. And they do it well – gays against straights, christians vs. non-christians. Back in the day, blacks vs whites and women vs. men were very popular distractions from the class warfare being waged against us.
In fact, there has been a long history of plutocrat controlled organizations like the CIA infiltrating and supporting culture war groups just to inflame the divisions within the left. At one point, noted feminist Gloria Steinem was even on the CIA’s payroll.
This has been accompanied by another plutocrat controlled entity, the mass media, coming in to fan the flames even more. This is how they conquered us. And it is all for one purpose, to rip you off. While the people have been fighting over comparatively irrelevant issues, like prayer in school and whether gay people can call it marriage or not, the plutocrats have been carrying your shit out the back door. They have been robbing you of your rights and your wealth. As a result, more and more of us are falling into poverty, sickness, and despair.
They’ve bankrupted our schools, our communities, governments. Right now an Alabama city is so broke it’s closing down courthouses and laying off so many cops that it’s now planning to call in the National Guard to maintain order.
Now you want to resurrect the gender war? As if there isn’t enough division already?
Count me out.
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… you shall NOT have great influence in MY empire!
Ha!
That’ll show you.
Well, when I get an empire, that is.
Seriously — I think the example of the Iriquois women’s councils in that essay was spot on — I also think that women have played a huge role in lots of historical events and have not been acknowledged for that — the civil rights movement comes to mind. Not one woman was in the forefront publicly, and that wasn’t an accident. So women having power is a big issue, imo, and the lopsidedness of that imbalance of power has caused great suffering in the world, I feel.
As far as the line you object to, men being about power and sex, etc., I also think there is some truth there, but I view that in a more yin/yang sense and not a gender sense.
I don’t think it’s an either/or as far as women or men being in power — but I do think the yin (female) and yang (male) forces are worth studying and understanding and that can’t be shrugged off as easily as you do here in your essay.
…I was a feminist, but now that I know that Gloria is a CIA plant…well, I’ve seen the light.
You think the gender war ever ended? I thought the diary this reacts to was a wee bit over the top, but the general idea seemed relatively benign.
Yes, there are different evolutionary strategies for different sexes, because different sexes have different reproductive parts and short-term goals; but when nature gets “red in tooth and claw,” the outcome still remains 50:50, on balance.
‘Splain that, sexist pigs!
You know, all kinds of things show up on our Front Page and I always try to remember to sign the ones I’m promoting.
Likewise people who can post to the Front Page are pretty much free to express themselves (though we do have some suggestions about not stepping on other people’s essays time wise).
That said I don’t think Tocque’s essay is going to change buhdy’s mind either about the wisdom of promoting the original piece or about the wisdom of having Tocque as a Guest Blogger here.
Have fun kids, don’t hurt each other with your feathers.
That you focus in on “real women in power” as your basis for concluding certain things ie that we are too easily idealized and men too quickly judged.
I think there are plenty of women with power, influence and wisdom ( as are there men) who never receive much recognition precisely because they don’t seek the traditional seats of power. We can’t possibly suggest that Margaret Thatcher ( and you don’t) is the only example of “women in power” as the basis for suggesting we are just as bad, which is what people often tend to do.
What I am hearing from you and I will be happy to be corrected if my perception is inaccurate is an argument I have heard before: drop your particular tribal concerns ( gender/race/culture/sexual orientation) for the “bigger fight” which is infinitely more important and all will be rewarded when the “big fight” is won. Except the big fight takes time and has not been won yet. And those little tribal concerns happen to be important to many of us.
I think it is entirely a yin yang thing. HRC touted her balls, she was going to be a killer just like the mens, which made me turn into a Obama supporter thinking the dude had more yin, turns out he could use a little yang. Ummmm… maybe not maybe just a refocusing of his yin yang. A little more fierce in the right direction, a little more nutururing toward people, the ones who have to live under our regime.
I think a lot the women who seek power in our patriarchal white man world, take on the worst aspects of the male. The soccer mom’s scare the crap out off me. Carl Sagan once said that until the government is balanced male/female it would stay as nasty as it is (paraphrase). We all seem to be a mix gender wise. I’m way meaner then my husband and he even dresses more ‘feminine’ then I do. Stereotypes that plunk us into men are all about sex and killing and women are nurturing I think that we sell our real selves short, mind spirit and bodily. lol.
I do wish that the feminine aspects of our natures were not considered weakness, but strength. Women do have power but like the Democrats often feel like they have to act assholes to ‘compete’. I never liked Gloria Steinem, she was too much of an insider elitest for my prol soul.
This all being said try being a woman in this world and bucking the stereotypes, and dealing with chest thumpers of either sex Goddesses are needed, they balance it out women ted to be categorized as mother/virgin or whore. . Militancy is sometimes needed by any group that is oppressed and as Yoko said woman is n….. of the world. I think you are too quick to put down anger that comes from being sidelined unless you leave your vagina at the door. How come men can get boner juice on insurance and women are denied birth control coverage?
Is Shiva a Goddess or a God Ask me were all a mix of killers and creators. We sure could use the creative and nurturing right now, so don’t judge the feminine by Michelle Malkin or my favorite, the author of the Scum Manifesto, Valerie Solanas, or even my name sake Artemis. It’s a ages long cultural war this one.
I only posted it in the user essays, and as the comments said, it was written half tongue in cheek.
There was no gender war involved, there was commentary about balance and an attempt to start a dialogue about the judeo-christian patriarchy that has made macho shit like torture ok.
Seriously sorry you’re offended, but take a deep breath, darling… attack mode isn’t fun.
The socio-political idea of kindness and emotion as weakness is reality, as is the continued male dominance in society. You can’t call prejudice if you already have white privilege, and you can’t really call male-bashing if a woman speaks to BALANCING the ying/yang duality of the sexes.
Especially when most of it was in jest.
I’m leaving for vacation now, so I guess I can’t respond further if you want to paint my words as hate. I wish you were a better eader, and read the comments too.
I will say unequivocally, they were not.
I would ask this though…
a call out diary on the FP, to degrade another user? Wow, DD, colour me shocked… did I lose my way and click on an orange or pink blog?
This makes me sad.
I am seriously thinking about never posting here again.
diary…. the diarist admited that she was kind of off the cuff, wrote it on 10 minutes, was somewhat “tongue in cheek”, and was more interested in possibly sparking some discussion, rather than declaring any absolutes.
so.
1. Consider the source, the writer. And the context given.
2. Consider the “audience”, the readership here. This place isn’t exactly “mainstream” or regular ol’ Blues, party faithful Dems. Many of us are DFH radical whacko’s and damn proud of it. Well educated and extremely literate bunch of whacko’s at that. And I like it here because we can toss around some Outside The Box crap and embrace it, applaud it, dispel it, mock it, or whathaveyou. Peaceably.
3. Consider the blog itself. “Blogging the future”. And the tone and style of the Admins here.
So. Anyway. Happy August. Hot enough for ya?
nothing is gained by leaving. i’ve decided not to get involved in this discussion, but i do hope it doesn’t result in the two of you blowing off in a huff. throw pillows, soak each other with water, or do what the folks who rented the house next door in maine did one morning – covered each other in shaving cream. whatever it takes. i’ll clean up the mess when it is over. just don’t leave.
is in the pudding:
Really?
So in TDV’s world, if one jokes about the male pursuit of power (god knows in 2 thousand years of history, men have never sought and HAD all the power) or the pursuit of sex, (God knows that n o man has ever tried to get laid and that most marketing is not geared toward selling women as sex to the world) we are witches, nutjobs, and attack the poor victimhood of men.
Wow. After all, only he knows the truth.
Seriously, I could have as easily made the broad statement that while men are wired to spread the seed, women are wired to keep a provider… (wow women trap men, say it ain’t so)
While none of these ideas are true for everyone and everything, my ideas are neither new, nor lack historical context.
My overall point was that we need a balance.
My overall point was that balance needed to include valuing tenderness as well as aggression.
Aggression. Surely TDV played that stereotype so well its hardly worth pointing out.
There are many men and women of great virtue and great vice, that is a condition of humanity. But valuing vice has become a condition of THIS SOCIETY, and dominion, one of the worst vices seems to be in this post judeo-christian world a male, their “god endorsed” concept that has become counter=productive.
There are zillions of guys who would agree, and they are part of the solution, not the problem.
Anyway, women are far more about sex than society would have us think, with the whole madonna/whore thing, and the concept of only very young, skinny women being sexual beings… proof of that is in the vibrator mega-industry… LOL.
I was hoping the whole male dominated society conversation could be had with humor and love.
But for a man who calls us “witches” as a perjorative to call me a bigot?
Its priceless.
I’m no wiccan, though I totally admire the religion. I’m no feminazi, I use the archaic male pronoun without rancor, instead of the bullshit pc s/he thingy. I have no problem with men opening doors for me, or me for them. Heh.
I’m a lot of things. A bitch, a lover, a child, a mother, a sinner & a saint, to steal a lyric.
I can even be a cunt. Meh. (oooh, she used the “C” word… yep that shit doesn’t bug me at all, it amuses me that a word is so loaded as to be taboo. To me its always about the emotion behind it. And the writer of these comments and this essay is full of rage toward not just me, but apparently all women, who he perceives as “man haters”)
What I most assuredly am not is a bigot.
I am just a person who ponders status quo, and tries to rethink new ways, new balances in which change may happen.
And, yes, division (and there surely is division in our society) has to be healed… by making us ALL men/women, black/white, religious/atheist on EQUAL footing, so we CAN fight the CLASS WAR (his only valid point, imo) together.
It certainly won’t happen if we cannot even have the conversation.
It certainly won’t happen when even the mere thought of a female lead society (which changed in framing to a dual, Iroquois-type society, had he read it) enrages a man to the point of blowing his lid.
Yes, TDV, some of it was a joke…. but your reaction proves why parts of it were not.
Female equality in society=witches, nutjobs and high schoolers to you… and feminism=CIA.
Again, just wow.
Is lying down oin the floor and keeping calm.
I hope others will adopt my position as well!
I’ve been offline and am just catching up….
But really folks, this is, as far as I can tell, just a nice blog dustup.
Yes Dianne made a generalization about men, HORRORS!
Tocque objected HORRORS!
Iow, the usual “fun” Blogtroversy. Not, dare I say, the end of the world.
The only thing I sorta disapprove off was Tocque putting his objection on the FP, but….
He probably didn’t know how NOT to!
He is new to soapblox. I have informed him how to put future Meta on the recent list instead of using the power of the FP.
He is mad at me for promoting Dianne and may stay that way, who knows.
I am VERY used to that sort of thing by now.
We promote all kinds of essays to the FP, even/especially controversial ones. It’s called…..blogging.
I hope that everyone can get over it. And heck, maybe even …learn stuff!
That being siad, the chips WILL fall where they will.
In the meantime, as the outlaw saint John Dillinger used to say…
Everyone lie down on the floor and keep calm.
Or…..not!
Thast pointing out they way we have BEEN divided, and the fact that we ARE divided….
Because…. we ARE
In so many ways
Which is THE problem.
Is NOT encouraging that divide, it is facing it.
Ignoring stuff don’t make it go away.
We have to face it and talk about it. Race Class Gender wealth…..power. We have to face the challenges of all of them.
Even if we do it clumsily and piss each other off!