And when it is important, you use every tool you have to negotiate with.
Even the ones that “some people” might disagree with or be shocked by. Like throwing tantrums, screaming at the top of your lungs, making “outrageous” statements and proposing outrageous policies, and making outrageous demands, aligning (temporarily and event specifically) with people you otherwise despise, and yes…..threatening to kill the bill. Or with hold your vote. Or primary people.
You DO go over the line. Because that is how the line moves.
You ask for more than you want and you fight for every ounce of it and you don’t back down until you absolutely have to and until you have wrung every last drop of concession from your ‘opponent’ you can get. And then you wait three day before doing so. Until they come back to you. And then ask for more once more before you back down the absolute minimum possible.
Then you make another “outrageous” demand and throw another tantrum and threaten to withhold your vote again over the next point.
Negotiation is not polite, it is not a sport or a game and if you let things like politeness or the fact that “some people” might not like you or say mean things about you or call you names stop you from getting every last goddam thing you can get…….you suck at negotiating.
And you are letting the people you are fighting for down.
Because you are NOT negotiating over the price of a rug or a discount on a hotel room. You are negotiating for peoples lives.
What you don’t do is overestimate your position or your importance to the process. What you don’t do is make it about your ideology or your position. What you don’t do is to never compromise or back down.
Because then you make yourself irrelevant.
If your opponents know you will never compromise……why should they even try to negotiate with you?
And if they never negotiate with you …..
You can’t get anything.
And the whole point of the process is to get something from the negotiation.
Otherwise you suck at negotiating and are not representing the people you are supposed to be fighting for.
And you become irrelevant to the process. You become an irrelevant ideologue. You have nothing but the cold comfort that comes from wrapping yourself in your ideology.
You use EVERY tool you have. You hold out as long as you can to get all that you can. You move the line.
But at the end of the day, when you are sure you have gotten all you can get….you vote yes.
And then next time, after you have proven you are relevant to the process….after you have proven that they need you you can get more.
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is that they don’t know how to negotiate.
But the ProgCauc made progress, and now the WH is forced to have to deal w Kucinich…..hopefully “we” are learning.
and you are totally wrong.
Rahm is right, there is absolutely no reason to consider “fucking retarded” progressives because when push comes to shove the will ALWAYS cave.
Insurance Company Welfare GIVES US NOTHING.
It gives Insurance Companies $100 BILLION IN BONUSES!
Financial Reform is a JOKE!
Climate Change A DEATH SENTANCE!
Where are your negotiated victories buhdy?
Yesterday I challenged you to name a single one and I’m still waiting.
The only thing these assholes understand is the stick and the only one I have is my vote.
The only question now is if I’m going to maximize it by voting Republican to send a stronger message.
I think that’s exactly what transpired — and, you know, being a “lone wolf” out there amongst “hunters’ ain’t the easiest either.
~~~~~
Hope you’re feeling a little or a great deal better!
in the House lost is that they were not willing to say that they would kill this bill if their demands weren’t met. That’s why Stupak, Baucus, Lieberman, Nelson and the insurance companies that they represent won.
It is also because this is the bill that Obama wanted.
Those who still support Obama need to realize that he is just a repeat performance of the last 8 years. The Democrats in the Congress are no better.
So far there are still not enough votes in the House at this point pass this bill. Kill It.
Health Care Whip Count Update: 191 Yes, 206 No (203-210 with leaners)
it will repeat later, thank goodness (Im missing most of it). He’s pointing out the “Real Enemy” = the monolithic Ins co’s (who are calling all the shots).
are the ones to have to “negotiate” with what used to be our own party as if they were Republicans. Because this entire party has seen the Democratic Party defaulting as if it were composed of Republicans.
Think of it. “Democrat Bart Stupak is threatening to kill the bill over abortion! Quick, let us cave to his demands as quickly as possible!” versus “Kucinich is threatening to kill the bill because it’s not progressive enough! Quick, let us demonize, destroy, and threaten him!”
I know I’m constantly too naive for the times. This is not what I expected. I didn’t expect to have to fight the Democrats as if they were the worst of Republicans, and twice as dishonest.
It is not that negotiating is a problem. It’s the nature of negotiation and who we should have to do it with and the fact that we on the progressive left do not have a seat at the table!
Yes, budhy, that’s it .. that’s my problem here. Kucinich tried to give us a seat at the table, but the Lieberdems held out ten times as long and played it to the very end. Kucinich caved after, what .. 7 days? And this is all within our own party.
Some people thought they were negotiating with friends. They were wrong. Now we have to treat the entire Democratic Party as enemies. Because any other way is just not acknowledging of reality as it now sits.
We have to not only “negotiate” with them in the hardest of all hardball senses. We have to destroy them, politically, whenever and wherever we can. And that’s sad, for a Party that used to have ideals.
I’m disgruntled, angry, and not at all surprised….If this whole debacle has taught me anything it is that progressive/lobs are irrelevant to the process. Greenwald has a good piece on why we can eat shit and die and the establishment wouldn’t care…
Rahm was right.
since just before the general election. In fact, he’s the only authentic friend I have in my local community. He’s a brilliant man whose life is like that beer commercial about “the most interesting man in the world”. Our breakfast discussions can last 3-4 hours, and are amazingly stimulating.
He’s an old, retired anthropologist/archaeologist originally from the heart of Appalachia, born in the 30’s.
He’s lived through hard times, and has seen it all. He’s met deal makers, philosophers and movie stars and has seen the world through his unique African American eyes.He’s no stranger to abuse,and has dealt with racist institutions and people his whole life. He even knows betrayal quite well. The entire English language is free game when we go at it.
When he saw me approaching in the parking lot, he knew right away what I had on my mind. I let off steam about Obama for a couple of minutes, and then waited for his response. I was surprised, and then I wasn’t, for he’s always been more optimistic than me. His perspective on the current political situation reflects the way he sees the nasty, phony real world, a place where you must persevere while you try to enjoy the entertainment and hypocracy. He’s wired into Obama totally different than I am. Hopefullywe can continue our very brief parking lot chat soon. We’re both looking forward to it.
I can see this essay has generated a lot of electricity, but I’m not sure how much light. But the energy is real, and that’s good.
If you’re unwilling to face just how broken this system is, then you can justify anything–but you’ll never- ever- ever change one damn thing.
And that’s the problem.
The people who should know better can’t face reality.
The reality here is that the American people wanted to move to the left–they’ve proved that the last three elections.
The reality here though is that the Democrats ARE NOT LEFT. They’ve proved that for 30 years or more.
The reality is that those that really are left, are afraid to say what the Democrats are–they’d rather shift blame to Republicans as MOT does here endlessly, or say we just ‘lost a negotiation’ as Budhy does here-although it should be clear to anyone that there was no negotiation that we were any part of. Not on this. Not on Afghanistan, Iraq, or any damn thing else.
Nada. Zip.
So what are the American people supposed to think of all this?
When we look like bunch of idiots, and can’t even point out the obvious truth that the Democrats and Republicans are both far right of center, are moving further that way, and that all power in Washington–all of it–comes with a price tag in the billions.
utterly…….
ek wtf…….